How Andrew Twigg is Ruining the Fabric of Society

What follows is just one person’s perspective (MINE, dummies!) on Pride and the fight for LGBT equality. All names and images were used with permission. Pittsburgh Pride is running June 1-10. Please visit their website for information and a schedule of events.

Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past, oh, ALL OF TIME EVER, you’ve heard anti-gay rhetoric. It’s been going on for so long now that we’ve almost forgotten the true motive behind it: to get you to fear gays. Why? Because then maybe you will hate them.

These nasty comments are always generalized, but that’s not how I hear them. Just in case you’re one of those rare individuals who, gosh, just don’t know any gay people, I’d like to introduce you to my brother, Andrew.

He is bright. Creative. Empathetic. Silly. Loving. A smartypants. A brilliant graphic designer and a pop-culture junkie. He sees the best in everyone — even before he proceeds to bring it out in them. And he just happens to be gay.

Here’s what anti-gay individuals believe — and want YOU to believe — about him.

Andrew Twigg’s marriage would threaten my marriage. It would threaten all marriages. It would threaten the traditional values of this country. If Andrew Twigg can get married, then what? DOGS can too?

Oh that Andrew Twigg, always hatching a plan against the breeders!

But it’s not just about my brother. This talk affects my friends, coworkers, and dozens of people you know personally, too. If someone said these things to your loved ones’ faces, how do you think they’d feel? Probably not how you feel when you hear it on TV.

Here are some more gems, featuring my dear friend Dave.

Gimme a break! The only thing he’d be serving in the military is brownies.

… by acting as Best Man at his brother’s wedding. What a monster!

Now scratch that, reverse it. Forget gay or straight. Saying these things to ANY human being is terrible and hateful. Which is, uh, exactly the point I’m trying to make. What if these things were said about you?

To be fair, I bet rapists and murderers enforce a pretty strict curfew.

I’m not asking you to donate your money or even your time. I’m not asking you to walk around with rainbows all over your person (but seriously, would a pop of color kill you, Morticia?). I’m just asking you to think. Just hear these awful statements for what they are — HATE — and consider the real live individuals on the receiving end.

What are the worst remarks you’ve heard, whether from a politician or a regular Joe? Leave ’em in the comments — but perhaps phrase them to be about YOU instead.

75 thoughts on “How Andrew Twigg is Ruining the Fabric of Society

  1. Addi – I had to share this on my Facebook page. You have SUCH a way of delivering a message – this made me sad, angry, and chuckle (“Add some color to your life, would you??”) all at the same time. I always think of Andrew when I hear stories of hate and especially with North Carolina’s most shining moment (said with heavy sarcasm). He is seriously one of the kindest, funniest, most creative people and everyone loves him! So how can anyone HATE for something that is a part of who he is? I just don’t get it. I’ll never understand it and I only hope that one day, people will channel their hate into issues that really do impact all of us.

  2. Andrew has ruined countless games of Celebrity by not being on my team, and Dr. G has ruined EVERYTHING by serving me breakfast after midnight ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS. It’s like down is up for these people!

  3. I always find it a little illogical that the desire of two people who love each other and want to live in lifelong commitment to one another and enjoy all the rights and privileges that such a union imparts is seen as a THREAT to others. I’m a religious conservative but fiscally and politically liberal. I am not threatened by gays wanting to marry, nor is my marriage. If anything, marriages bound by love are a great boon to all of us who are digging this institution as something that could and does change the world. If anything, the fabric of society could use a little ship-shaping (oooh, there she goes with the gay joke!). xoxo

  4. Sometimes I think people forget being gay is just who you sleep with. We don’t follow straight people into the bedroom and critique their choices so why do we do this with gay people? And by “we” I mean society.

    • Oh, golly – we sure DO follow straight people into the bedroom. On like, every tabloid in the country, every reality TV show, every Kim Kardashian sex tape – the difference is that while a few vocal opponents do condemn this wanton behavior, secretly most straight people (men and women) wish their sex lives were as salacious as the tabloid headlines. My condemnation of society is that we don’t see religious conservatives protesting military funerals because of premarital (straight) sex or because Kim Kardashian’s sacred institute of marriage lasted all of 72 days. But what can you expect from the people who actually believe that when God is angry he causes natural disasters? In summary, I propose we execute Kim Kardashian or promote tolerance. Or a combination thereof.

    • For those who may not know, Todd Glass is a comic who surprised pretty much everyone by coming out in the last year. Thanks for posting this, Eric!

      • the WTF with Marc Maron podcast in which Todd Glass comes out is amazing and a must-listen. Glass finds it incredibly difficult to even call himself gay. this from the guy who is coming out as a homosexual man. Maron at one point basically forces him to say he (Glass) is gay. that’s the pernicious effect of homophobia in our society. that’s why this shit is important. Todd Glass is a pretty well known comedian with a lot of friends and colleagues to back him up. Andrew Twigg is a mild-mannered well adjusted fellow with great family and friends who accept him wholeheartedly. sadly, not everyone is as lucky as them, and because of this people’s lives are at stake. it’s a big deal.

  5. “God hates you,” God hates fags, of course, being a favorite slogan of the hateful types. God, of course, being a convenient cover for some (not all Christians! Jesus Christ on a crutch this comment is not about Christian simmer down!) people with hatred in their hearts but insufficient guts to be honest about the source.

      • ya know… I think people lose sight sometimes of the pure hatred and disgust and sheer intolerance some of this is rooted in. My uncle, a gay man beloved to many, died of HIV/AIDS in the early 90’s, when people bit their vile tongues even less than they do now. I’ll never forget how nasty people were. I don’t want to hear these civilized “difference of opinions” arguments. Eff that noise. We have systematically treated an entire group of AMERICAN GODDAMN CITIZENS like they’re something less than us and whether you speak hate or speak logic, you end up in the same place. Ugh. Stomping my feet.

  6. The small gay man in my brain is in love with the small gay man in my husband’s brain. Together, they do the gayest things: see actual Broadway shows, critique people’s stupid clothing, enjoy watching True Blood, and admire everything about NPH. These little nymphs even talk about how we’d really like a nice, gay couple to move in down the street so our kids could be friends with their kids. Scandalous!

  7. I am not the first to say that the gays are society’s and the economy’s saving grace. As soon as we realize this, POOF! (pun intended), the recession and unemployment are gone. Gay men especially have a lot of the middle of the pay scale jobs, they move into run down neighborhoods and transform them into the yuppie havens of tomorrow. Gay weddings? I think you mean, CASH COW! Gay divorces? CASH BULL! Gay bachelor/bachelorette/break-up parties? CASH HERD! We need their money! You better accept the gay people! Your job, heck your whole livelihood depends on it!

    • This is hilarious because an ex of mine votes conservative but always says the same thing. “Think of the economy!”

  8. “These nasty comments are always generalized, but that’s not how I hear them.”

    This is so true. It is so true that you are unfortunately just doing the same thing to other people who happen to disagree with you. You see, by generalizing all people who oppose gay marriage as being gay-haters and/or homophobes, you have just done what you accuse them of doing!

    I don’t hate gay people, I just disagree with the idea of reconciling a marital relationship with a homosexual relationship. A disagreement of ideas here is not hateful. I assure you I have gay friends. Do I hate my gay friends because I disagree with some of their beliefs? Of course not.

    I agree with you on this: someone who says that “God hates ____” is someone who is saying something hateful. But it is also hateful and intellectually dishonest to hastily conflate a card-carrying member of the Westboro Baptist Church with any other person who holds the opinion that marriage is a heterosexual union for the purposes of creating a family and perpetuating the survival of society. I am not a hateful person because I see marriage as more important than just a legally recognized sexual relationship between two consenting adults worthy of tax benefits.

    I am a principled person, as are you. Our principles here are different. Please, don’t accuse me of hatred merely because I thought my way to a different conclusion than you did. It is hateful for you to accuse me of being hateful.

    • Joseph, the baseline of what you are doing is reducing my brother to a person who is not worthy of equal rights. And that, in and of itself, is hate.

      • That is begging the question. I can only be considered to be denying your brother equal rights IF marriage is something that any two people can enter into. But the whole debate about marriage rights is really a debate about what marriage is and what marriage is not.

        I do not believe marriage is something that two men or two women can actually enter into, only because I believe marriage is indeed a union of a man and woman, and that definition comes from the functions of marriage and the natural consequences of the marital act, as well as an understanding of human nature that predates history and has remained consistent until the very era we live in (Indeed, even the ancient Greeks who openly practiced homosexual behavior as a cultural norm did not see that behavior as equating to marriage, it was something else).

        When you label me and other people who oppose gay marriage as hateful, you are assuming that what you construe as marriage is what everyone accepts marriage to be. That is not the case, and it is not hateful to disagree about the definition of marriage. I am curious, how would you define marriage? Inevitably, whatever your definition, it will exclude some group of people (otherwise your definition will be meaningless). In doing so, are you hating them?

        • The key phrase in your statement is “I do not believe marriage is…”. This is all your opinion. We will agree to disagree.

          Consenting adults should be legally allowed to marry. This “definition” doesn’t exclude anyone as you suggest above. If you wanna marry your cousin, so be it. If you wanna have more than one spouse at a time, go for it. You’re consenting adults. Have at it.

    • Joseph: I won’t have an argument with you here. What you’re talking about is religious marriage; I don’t want it. Actually, I don’t want any marriage right now since I’m not even dating anyone right now.

      If you look into the history of marriage – not the revisionist history of marriage but the ACTUAL history of marriage – you will find that it is not the thing that most religious conservatives today say it was about.

      You “disagree with the idea of reconciling a marital relationship with a homosexual relationship.” I disagree with the premise that your ideas about marriage which seem to be rooted in the concept that marriage is exclusively about the union of man, woman and god.

      Call it whatever you want, I want the same legal rights and privileges that others have. What I want is equality. You will see yourself on the wrong side if history, and your views will eventually come to be seen as wrong by the humankind – including the church – in the same way people who (thought/think) that interracial marriage was wrong, and I would bet anything on that.

      • One other short thing: what if we all just had civil unions, and if you wanted a marriage, you went to the religious institution of your choosing? That’s really how I think it should work.

        If I were presidicator of the world.

        • Right. Like, according to Joseph’s definition, I shouldn’t have been allowed to marry. I’m not religious and we are never having children. But I’m straight so *POOF* (there it is again!), it was super easy for me to get married.

          It’s the difference between holy matrimony and a plain ol’ legal contract.

          • I have said nothing of religion and have not used any article of faith in my defense of heterosexual marriage. I have only mentioned history (and of that, non-Christian, Greek history where gay behavior was commonly accepted) and biology. What you have just done is intellectually unfair; it is a straw man and a red herring in one breath. You write off my opinions as religious, thereby dismissing them as personal convictions (why can’t I do the same to you?). That’s a straw man fallacy.

            Then you back away from marriage and talk about civil unions, which is a red herring. I have said nothing about civil unions. The post mentions gay marriage, not gay civil unions. I was defending myself from being labeled a hater for not agreeing with gay marriage, and that is all. I don’t hate gay people in general, and I don’t hate Andrew specifically. I have no reason to hate you, Andrew. I just disagree with your assessment of what a marriage is, what it is for, and what should be given special consideration in the eyes of the law. My perspective on marriage differs, and if you hate me for that I can’t help it, I can only urge you to examine your own biases, presumptions, and subjective beliefs on the issue.

            I am not attempting to argue the issue of gay marriage per se, but only defend myself against the accusation that I am a hating person.

          • If I am hateful simply by accusing others of hate, your logic places you in the same position. You accuse me of hate, therefore you hate me. This was a flawed view from the get-go. I never said I hated anyone — I merely suggested that what OTHERS are spewing is hatred. If you admit to hating me, you prove your own hypocrisy. If you claim not to hate me, then you negate your own argument.

            I will not be approving any further comments, as this thread has come to a hilariously silly dead end.

  9. Joseph, the beautiful thing about the idea of America is that no one else’s beliefs should keep you from engaging in rituals and behaviors that are important to you (assuming they are safe, consensual, insert common sense stipulations here etc)… why should it be different for Andrew? He is an American citizen with his own way of being and there just isn’t any justification for denying him what we can have just because of how if makes another citizen feel, even about something as cherished as marriage. It terrifies me that people can carry loaded weapons around, especially after my husband was trapped in Western Psychiatric with a shooter. It scares me as a mom-to-be that people can choose not to vaccinate their kids. These are true existential threats, but as an American citizen I know that sometimes my beliefs don’t get to come first. Live and let live.

  10. Semantic straw man, abstraction distraction, smoke and mirrors. Pffffft. Socially we all understand marriage to be at minimum a legally binding contract which brings with it certain rights and responsibilities. People load on meanings at will but I don’t know anyone who can genuinely claim not to understand the basic terms of the debate. My lapsed Hindu husband and my heathen Catholic cast-out had a Quaker ceremony in which we acted as our own officiants and high-fived at the end, and neither the government nor either of our employers (they of the health insurance granting) batted an eyelash or asked for a written definition of what we think marriage means. Functionally and practically, “marriage” is absolutely nothing more or less than I stated above in society today and to contort yourself into these verbal knots insults both of our intelligence and distracts from the meat of the thing.

  11. One time, I was walking through Manhattan with my (gay) friend William. We were in a hurry, running late, both flustered and pissy about it, and someone stopped us at a corner holding a flier and said “do you have 5 minutes for gay rights?” We were like “uh…um…” and William said “I’M SORRY WE HAVE TO GO” and kept moving. He turned to me and said “I mean, I have every minute for gay rights, but we’re fucking late for this meeting.”

    We still laugh about this (I can’t do how funny and matter-of-fact William was) …but it’s sort of how I feel trying to comment on this entry. I have so many things to say, I don’t know what to say. Especially after reading the (45!) comments. I somewhere between tear up or downright sob at pretty much every “It Gets Better” video, personal story, blog entry, photo, etc. I have a LOT of very, very close gay friends, but no one in my immediate family, nor am I gay: but I seem to care more about this issue than ones that affect me much more personally. I tend to think that’s just a humanity-meter going off in me. This is *wrong.*

    So I’ll just say two things on the entry:

    -I LOLed at the picture of you guys on Mt. Washington. Andrew’s adorable face and adorable glasses with that ridiculous NO over it. I also LOLed at the ‘serving brownies.’

    -You couldn’t have picked a better human being to emphasize as being an incredible example of the human race who thus deserves every (if not more) rights than the next person. When you wrote “he sees the best in people”, I almost choked up…because once upon a time, Andrew saw the best in me during a hard time and it was the pure goodness of his character and his heart that allowed him do so. You’re a lucky little sister.

    • That story is HILARIOUS, like, something out of a rom-com.

      Obviously it doesn’t matter if your immediate family is affected. There are plenty of people out there with gay family members who perpetrate this very hate, sadly. It just matters if you see the issue for what it is — human rights.

      And I totally hear you about caring about this issue more than ones that affect you directly. I care about gay issues WAY more than women’s lib. WHOOPS. (Though to be fair, that is in part because I believe the battle for gay rights has a much longer way to go.)

      But yeah, you and I are a couple of bosom buddy bleeding liberals when it comes to this topic, among many of our other friends. Let’s hear it for the straight white girls!

  12. Addi, I have to say I strongly disagree with something in your post…..

    I think Dave would serve brownies AND chocolate chip cookies in the military.

    All joking aside, your brother and Dave are two of the most amazing, wonderful human beings I have ever met. You know I believe in God, but I also believe that only that God has a right to judge. After all, the Bible says way more about divorce than homosexuality, and I have been divorced. How could I possibly say that my choices are any better or worse than anyone else’s ?

    • I hit post too soon….

      In any case, I don’t feel that my marriage is threatened or devalued in any way by permitting gay/lesbian couples to marry. If two people love each other, then that is all that should matter. I cannot believe that we can tolerate people like Kim Kardashian and her sham of a marriage, but raise hell over two men or two women wanting to legally, publicly and officially declare their love for one another…

  13. Ok I just want to point out one thing because it makes me amazingly frustrated at both sides of this debate. Marriage is not a contract between two consenting adults. Marriage is not between a man and a woman. Marriage is not about two people who fell in love. Marriage is not about religion. Marriage is not about taxes.

    Marriage was invented as a MAN’s ownership document to his wives (PLURAL!). Marriage is basically a title deed. Women were bought, traded and forced into marriage against their will (most of the time). We can thank Constantine for putting a religious spin on it. Arranged marriages are still very widely accepted in this world and so is polygamy.

    My point is that marriage is not trying to be “redefined” by same sex couples. The history of marriage predates church ceremonies. This is a ridiculous debate. Marriage has always been an ever changing definition as we go from one era to the next. It has been there to suit our needs as we saw fit. These changes NEED to happen to allow all consenting adults to marry. And the only reason I am pro gay marriage is because of the tax benefits etc. if those benefits were taken away, even from straight couples, there would be no reason to marry whatsoever. So maybe that’s the answer?

  14. i am coming in mad late to this discussion, at the end which probably no one (save maybe Addi, bless her heart) will read, basically to say a few things. here they are.

    1)God doesn’t hate “fags”. know why? cuz… there ain’t no God. sorry everybody. and it probably sounds disingenuous, but i don’t mean to offend those on here that may believe in “him”. if you are believing in GOD, that is the guy in the pajamas with the white beard who appears in the Bible and Quran, he actually sort of does hate gays. or at least gayness. but it doesn’t matter because he’s not real. so God hating gays/gayness is like saying Darth Vader hates gays/gayness. it’s just not relevant. if you are believing in the “well, i mean, i think there is a God, ya know? but i don’t think it’s a guy with a white beard.” kinda God, then chances are you’re not too worried about it, so knock yourself out (he’s also not real, for the record). and also Jesus never says anything about gays. the closest we get is some stuff from Paul, and he had a lot of shitty things to say about a lot of people. the proscription against homosexual acts is in Leviticus, and no one is buying that crap any more, not even most Jewish folks. it just doesn’t apply.

    2)people always point out that stupid fucking idiots like the Kardashians or Katy Perry or whatever were married for 5 days (or whatever) and gay couples have been together for 15 years, so they should get married. not true. it doesn’t matter if straights get married for short times. a gay couple could easily fall in love, have all kind of heady emotions and such, get married, regret it, and break up within a month. ESPECIALLY in hollywood, which is generally filled with horrible people. it doesn’t matter how long or short their marriages will or won’t last. they should be allowed to marry because they are human fucking beings. marriage is not sacred. you may love your marriage and the idea of marriage, but truly, that’s a preference. like all institutions, it didn’t fall from the sky: we made it up. that doesn’t make it less important for some reason. it’s just a factual way of looking at it. that said, yes, gays should be allowed to marry (see the emboldened type as to why).

    3)the fact that gays are allowed to go around killing people in foreign countries with government sanction (i.e. -join the army, etc) , but not marry is a)ridiculous, b)completely and totally American. it’s not something that ever dawned on me until now, but man, it’s staggering. of course we (i.e. – the USA) look the other way on this, but a matter to do with the heart, well, what are you a commie? jeezis…

    4)i love the use of what i call the “fear font” in your memes above. i personally, on the lighter side, would like to see a series of “lol-andrews” and “lol-daves”, similar to the waning (but still adorable) Lol-cats phenomenon.

    5)this has generally been a great discussion and i have enjoyed the majority of the comments. cool deal.

    6)some friends of mine and i used to talk about how since none of us would probably marry (by choice, by the way), we wished we could give some gay friends our “right” to marry, ya know, sort of balance it out. there should be some sort of swapping system, i think. why not?

    7)historically speaking, the commentor known as “jen” above is correct, and this is a huge part of my problem with marriage. obviously people now-a-days have made it not simply about those transactional things, but my whole thing gets back to the “why do you need the piece of paper?” i don’t know. it’s not a simple question, obviously. there are real world concerns, like if a couple were to have kids, not be married, and one them dies, the kids would probably not go to the surviving parents, etc. and the tax and health-care things. still and all, i’m not merely burdened by real world concerns. if i can’t get my head into something philosophically, i’m not into it. but that’s just me.

    man, i feel like i’ve gone on and on, so that’s that. great post, Addi.

    • More importantly, a person’s belief in god has nothing to do with the law. Get religion out of government. It should not be a factor in establishing laws. Not in 2012.

      • truly. if you read the 10 commandments, the only ones that are actual laws are “thou shalt not kill”, “thou shalt not steal”. the rest are garbage about Guh-HAWD* being jealous of statues and cave paintings and shit. there is no basis for modern (be it 1776 or 2012) legal code anywhere in the bible. and there shouldn’t be!

        *”god” being pronounced by a southern televangelist type.

  15. Nice post Addi! Thought I’d drop my thoughts/opinions.

    I’m a Republican (I know, I know). I’m conservative. I used to be a regular Church going Catholic. But you know what trumps all this? Free will. Free choice. It isn’t any of my business or anyone else’s who someone choices to marry or be with, no matter what sex. We always hear about how this is a free country, but we still persecute and ridicule anyone who is “different”.

    And what is “different”? Who defines what is normal or different in today’s society? Too much of this hate is self-serving or ignorant. We’re talking about people who have so much hate that they have to pick out someone, anyone, different than them to punish. Makes them feel better in their own insignificance.

    Have I heard lots of homophobic jokes? Yes. Have I laughed? I’m ashamed to say I did. I know better now, and I have for a while now since a few of my friends came out.

    And maybe it’s just me, but being hit on by a guy is still flattering. When I used to have hair and highlights, it did happen. I don’t care who hits on me, still makes me feel good!

    • Well said, PJ. Your comment was so similar to my own beliefs that my girlfriend actually thought it was me! I know plenty of Republicans, conservatives, and Catholics who are in support of gay civil unions (or whatever other term you want to apply to government-recognized marriages) for the same reasons you’re talking about: free will.

      I believe we have to recognize every person as an individual with a heart, a soul, and therefore equal rights.

      That doesn’t mean favoring one group above another, and it doesn’t mean the government excluding people from certain civil functions. If you are paying taxes to a state and federal government, then you should receive a basic level of rights. It’s easy peasy!

      • “I believe we have to recognize every person as an individual with a heart, soul, and therefore equal rights.”

        Easy peasy, indeed!

  16. So I recently had a debate with a Christian conservative about gay marriage. (Let me also say that I know plenty of Christians who support gay marriage so this is not an indictment of Christianity). His big argument was the whole, “Where do you draw the line?” thing. You’ve all heard it before. “If we let men or women marry other men or women, who is to say that we don’t have to allow people to marry their dogs or houses or cars.” Normally, when people bring up this argument, I look at them like their face just opened up and an entire stupid army marched out of it. This time was different, though. I said to him, “Ok I accept your argument. Let’s assume we live in a world in which allowing gays to marry opens up a giant slippery slope at the bottom of which, there will be a whole bunch of man-dog and lady-car marriages. Now let me ask you this: Where do YOU draw the line. If your belief system allows you to say marriage is only between a man and a woman, where do you draw the line of restriction? What if tomorrow, someone says marriage is only between a CHRISTIAN man and woman or a WHITE man and woman? Is that okay? Isn’t the slippery slope of restriction of marriage a more vile concept than the vision of some nut-job marrying his car?” I swear to you his brain short-circuited. He couldn’t talk. He just looked at me like the ground was going to open up and swallow me for making him question his moral superiority. I went home sad that basic logic doesn’t work on these people.

    • What gets me is that crazies all around the globe ALREADY ARE marrying animals and inanimate objects! I’ve read numerous head-spinning stories about it.

      It’s still a null argument, though. To bring animals into it is an insult to gay CONSENTING ADULTS who should be able to marry other CONSENTING ADULTS.

      Unfortunately, no matter how hard I wish it, your adorable chinchillas could never give consent.

      • i’m on the other end of the spectrum: let people marry objects and creatures. why not? i don’t see what it has to do with me or anyone else who is not them. should someone marry an animal or object? well, no. but that’s just my opinion (and it’s not an uninformed opinion, either). but there are people who say gays should not marry, and frankly if the laws say they can, then fuck those people. i agree the ultimate good would be to change hearts and minds, but if that’s not possible, hey, at the very least there is legal recognition of it that these bigots can’t stop.

        however, if people are able to marry dogs and cars, and do, i WILL fucking mock them to their face. just sayin’.

        • I actually think this is an important distinction to make. The mistake these homophobes are making is that they are saying that the relationship between two men is more like the love of a man & a poodle than that of a man & a woman. It’s insulting. They are PEOPLE.

          I hear you, though. I get what you’re saying.

          • it’s true, a lot of assholes are likening homosexual relationships to bestiality and the like. so your point is ultimately more valid. i wouldn’t actively campaign for people to be allowed to marry a cat or motorcycle, but it is imperative to people’s rights as human beings they be allowed to marry, gay or otherwise. my comment was a bit pithy, which can sometimes be a downfall of mine.

  17. Pingback: Accessories: A Touch of Midas | add it up

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.