I mostly try to keep my political opinions off of the site. They belong on Facebook, amongst my musings about pooping at work! But this time I can’t help myself, because it’s the very first time that I’ll be voting in a presidential election, and by gum, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
Listen on iTunes if you prefer.
Look, no frontin’ — we are a couple of bleeding heart liberal juggernauts, but my guest Robin Hitchcock is a patriot and lover of all things presidential, historical, and American, so she’s a treat to listen to if you can put up with the liberal bias.
The quiz I reference in this minisode can be found at isidewith.com. The questions are weighted so that you can emphasize the issues that are most important to you.
Happy Voting or Not Voting, whatever’s your bag!
http://www.smartvoter.org/2012/11/06/pa/al/
Most of their information is straight up copied from my notebook. 😉
Hahahahahahahaha I love it.
i sided 98% with the Green Party (shock of shocks! 🙂 ) on that quiz thing. good to know, so i can tell people whom to vote for since i have no plans of doing such.
Milton, is that Jill Stein? She was my #2 after Obama.
yeah, that’s her. i didn’t know either LOL
you can call me a snarky asshole or whatever, but i couldn’t get through this podcast. i actually really like Robin and think she has a lot of good things to say, but i can’t listen to someone go on and on about how much they love America. ultimately i could just keep my snotty opinions to myself and not comment, but, hey, whattayagonnado? i absolutely get that we’re much better off than a lot of the rest of the world, but there’s so many disgusting things that happen here everyday for no better reason than people’s greed and entitlement, this emphasis on capitalism and competition, the ignorance of the masses who won’t even pick up a newspaper or anything not attached to an “app” of some kind, that i can’t love America. that’s not to say i love any other country any better, but that’s a different discussion all together. there are problems everywhere, but i don’t live everywhere, i live here. and ultimately i’ll probably never live anywhere else.
i can’t look at a homeless person in the street or even some dumb-ass teen texting away on an overpriced smart phone, some jackass throwing litter out of the window of their SUV, or some smirking rich fuck asking for a government hand out while blasting “welfare queens” and love America. oh well.
I love a lot of people whom I find deeply flawed. I feel the same about America.
it’s true, but the difference is, well for me, anyway, that America isn’t a person, it’s a country, and all countries are ultimately just constructs. we’re not gonna agree, but we don’t have to disagree vehemently, so it’s probably just best to leave it at that.
I find a big difference between “I love America!” and “I LOVE AMERICA IT IS THE GREATEST AND IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE JUST LEAVE!” The latter is just dickery in my opinion. Do I love living in America? Hell yes, and I wouldn’t want to leave. But I don’t call myself a patriot because that term has been hijacked by jerkfaces who think you can’t criticize it if you love it (you can only criticize its president — if he’s black, obviously). And I don’t want to be associated with them.
But I do love it despite its many flaws, as Liz eloquently stated.
i agree, there is a big difference, and i know Robin et al are in the former category. i think that’s a better way of looking at it, it’s just one i can’t share.
Milton, you’ve already said you don’t want to hear someone go on and on about how they love America, so I’ll spare you any epic list of reasons why I love my country.*
[*Epic List of Reasons Why I Love My Country available upon request.]
But I do want to say two things in response:
1. This was originally recorded in the middle of the Love Your Body Day episode, wherein I said something alluding to how sometimes you don’t like your family members, but you love them anyway. I think that model can apply to our bodies but also our countries. There are things about this country, past and present, I find horrible. I still love it like family. Because it is home; and it is mine. Everything on my redacted list of reasons I LIKE America and feel pride in being an American is icing (or gravy, if you prefer savory to sweet).
2. I currently live in South Africa, a country where pretty much anyone who is an adult was alive for the end of Apartheid and total reform of the government. It’s also a country of INCREDIBLE national pride, which I strongly suspect is a consequence of the previous factor. My short time in South Africa has amply demonstrated to me how valuable that patriotism is to the obviously ongoing healing process. Being in South Africa has really highlighted to me the differences between patriotism and nationalism, and proven to me that while the latter can be a divisive and war-mongering force, that latter is generally a force for good.
I truly believe that LOVING AMERICA makes people better citizens, and that having a nation of good citizens helps the country, and that having a Superpower that has a nation of good citizens is good for THE WORLD.
Obviously we can agree to disagree, but it’s impossible to point that out without saying some kind of “neener neener” remark along the lines of “well, we can because we are in America where we enjoy the protections of the First Amendment.”
But I’ll close out by saying I also really like Milton and think you have a lot of good things to say. I just wish you, Milton, could let awesome people like us reclaim love of America, because a) America deserves to be loved b) having people like us love America makes it stronger.
Just to be clear, I meant that Patriotism is a force for good, and Nationalism is not the same thing as Patriotism, because it can be divisive and war-mongering. Sorry for my poor comment editing.
Robin, i think you make a lot of cogent points here. also, you are 100% correct when you say that the reason we can agree to disagree is because we live here in America where we have the 1st amendment. it’s also why i can say “guess what, i don’t love America” and not have a terror squad break down my door and throw me in the back of a van never to be seen again. i personally don’t think that’s hypocritical, but maybe i’m wrong (not that you’re saying it is, by the bye). who knows?
i certainly never meant for my remark on not being able to listen to a list of reasons (which is politer, certainly, than saying “someone going on and on”) why someone loves America to be a pointed remark. i’m just not able to because that’s not a point of view i can relate to. there are things i like, in fact love, about living here that surprising have nothing to do with America qua America (some might say they actually do, and to that i say, “yes, well…” because frankly what can you say?). as i said to Addi above, it’s not like i love any other country any more than America, but i also frankly don’t love *any* country, nor even the idea of countries. this is a political theory that is a)not highly regarded in the U.S. and b)extremely complex, so it wouldn’t be fruitful to discuss here (tho i am willing to go on and on about it elsewhere <—— see what i did there? 🙂 )
i think i addressed the loving-people-who-are-highly-flawed perspective above with Liz: again, countries aren't people. for me, the family thing is the same: your family is made up of people you know and have strived with, etc. i think you can sort of distance yourself from that comparison. a unit of between 5 and 8 people (barring all manner of cousins, aunts, uncles, etc etc etc) is very different from a theoretical relationship with a group of people (generally rich old men, mostly white, in which one black guy was allowed to play) who tell you what to do despite the fact that you elected them and ultimately pay them.
as for how anyone else feels about absolutely anything: i would never tell someone what to love or what not to love. if you love it, that's awesome, i hope you love it your whole life, and i hope you live long. i hope your love for it is actually a concrete thing that makes it a better place for everyone, and i do mean everyone. i hope other people also feel that way about their countries, and that their countries become better places, and the world becomes a better place. i'm being completely sincere. so yeah, love America. totally rad in my book. i mean, if you'd said "i love murder", that might be a different story. i personally don't love it because i can't love it, for the reasons i stated in the initial comment.
i appreciate your clarification on Patriotism vs. Nationalism. frankly, i think Patriotism can go either way. Nationalism, however, is right out. it's no good for anyone.
You guys are all the best and I love you all, despite your many flaws. (See what I did there?) Seriously though, this is a great discussion and I feel lucky to have such intelligent friends on either side of it, especially because I feel like I kind of fall in the middle.
XOXO
i do see what you did there 🙂
it’s good to be able to have civil discourse with those you may not completely agree with, and i’m thankful that you were able to facilitate such a lively and thought-provoking discussion.
you’re alright, twigg.